I am the left and I am not delusional. GG is a paranoid small minded man. Too bad Wisconsites have to endure his stupidity.

OK Senator
1. How many bad teachers you will ley go (Names please)
2. Please keep us posted when you increase merrit to good teachers (Names please)
3. Is police and firefighters perfect union so you will keep them as is.
Thanks for keep us posted
4.

Morninmist Same
6:59pm on Sunday, August 7, 2011
I am the left and I am not delusional.

*********************
"...And doggone it, people like me!"

Is this the recommended mantra? How many times do you repeat this prior to leaving the house in the morning to face the new day?

Ironically enough, your kid's teacher will "learn how unimportant his job is," and take the opportunity (as others have taken) to teach your kid how "unimportant his job is" - perhaps through staged classroom protests, perhaps through pointed political commentary in the classroom that the kid brings home (even at the grade school level).
In showing how "unimportant his job is" your kid's teacher will demonstrate exactly how important his job is by showing the effect a teacher can have on a kid. And the sad thing is that the effect will not be teaching your kid a curriculum (as the system intends), but teaching your kid that unions are good and Republicans are bad.

Gary,

Ike, I believe, is being sarcastic.

"In fact unions correlate with the well-being of the middle class; the strong [sic] unions are, the stronger the middle class."

Interesting gap in logic here. Just because two things correlate doesn't mean that you can identify which is the cause and which the effect. Perhaps unions are stronger when the middle class is strongest just because the union demands become more tolerable in a prospering economy? Seems to me that makes a LOT of sense. And in doing so, explains why unions are the target right now - because we are NOT in a prospering economy. We are trimming excesses and eliminating wasteful practices. You know, like giving union teachers an insurance plan that costs $3k more per teacher than that available in the private market. The unspoken part of that statement? The extra $3k per teacher goes to the union itself. You know, the one that set up the insurance company that it requires the contract to use...

What is beyond you is the reason WI is back on that track. Sharp tracks do not allow the wheels to run smoothly.

Sharp tacks who paid attention in school know the difference between a 'tack' and a 'track' -- in Wisconsin's case a wide, straight track heading straight to a standard of living rivaling that of Mexico's. Without the warm weather.

Wow! Sarcasm so early in the day?

Many professions have CE requirements at their own expense. Lawyers, Medical, Accountants, Insurance, Investments, Plumbers....
The difference is they do not get a raise because they furthered their education, they do not have a supreme benefits package fully funded by their employer or taxpayer. If they suck at their job, they are out of work- even a Union Plumber.

Dick,

Patch regularly links articles across several communities if it feels it may be of interest to them. It wasn't written specifically for the WFB audience.

When it comes to tax relief, I'm withholding judgment until I see my next actual property tax bill.

Class warfare it is, propogated by the dems. This will be their whole strategy going forward if they succeed in WI tomorrow. Makers Vs. Takers! Dem's strategy is to have a large portion of the electorate dependend on the government. This includes jobs, housing, transportation, food, medical care.

@John - You nailed it. WEAC doesn't give two hoots about education. They also don't care to much about their members. They only care about ripping off school districts (taxpayers) with their overpriced insurance, and keeping the union dues rolling in.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely..."

Which why we need to stop the Walker/GOP power grabs.

Taking money away from the students? Excuse me, but what is the most significant factor in the class room? It's the teacher. That's like saying you're taking money away from the patients by paying doctors.

@Linda - Professionals are not represented by unions. Professionals believe they should be compensated based on their own ability and would like to advance based on their own ability! If you are a good teacher you should have the ability to make significantly more money. You should also resent the union for holding your ability to do this down. If you are a bad teacher or just an average teacher, the union is for you.

You're joking, right?

The Dow is down because there is no prospect for economic recovery, given nutty Tea Party refusal to stimulate the economy with government spending. (This has been shown to work; tax cuts for the wealthy have _not_ been shown to work -- or rather, have been shown NOT to work.)

Our Credit rating is down, because the Tea Party -- and GOP generally-- are willing to let the government default on its debts rather than raise taxes on the wealthy.

Whats the view like in those Obama colored glasses you are wearing Greg? Does it get tiring to keep defending these failed liberal policies?

And what rose-colored glasses were you wearing between 2001 and 2008, Steve? The Bush administration almost ran us into another Great Depression. There was a lot of money being made by some people, but not a lot of new job growth -- unless you're counting China and india.

You know what I don't understand? When millions of taxpayer dollars went to give bonuses to the AIG executives whose bad management tanked their company, requiring a TARP bailout, we were told that these bonuses were necessary to keep the 'best talent' at this now partially taxpayer owned company. After all, you can't expect the good talent to work for less than a million a year!

On the state level, we get our panties in a bunch over a teacher getting fifty thousand a year and a decent benefit package (which by the way they had negotiated a lower salary in return for.) Why should we expect altruism from teachers and not stockbrokers?

@Vicki - Thank you! You are making my point. You know why superintendents make more money? It's because they are not in the union! They have the ability to market themselves based on their own talent and create deals that improve their individual situation. Teachers could do the same thing based on their own individual talents if the union wasn't holding them down. It's a free economy at work!

Can't live on that credit card forever John.

Right, John. Prosser-cuter only gives the credit card to a GOP administration.

So your solution is to make grandma go without her hip replacement and the kids skip those expensive vaccinations to pay off the debt Mom ran up buying designer purses on QVC? Great thinking!

We could cut the spending where it causes the least hardship to average American citizens -- the two expensive wars -- and raise some revenue.

I know you hate 'Obama-care' but every time someone goes bankrupt from a catastrophic illness, either from being uninsured or inadequately insured, it costs the rest of us money.

Randy I do not totally disagree with you. Granny deserves her medicare and SS check. To threaten that she may not get it was wrong of Obama. That money is in a TRUST FUND; prepaid by Granny.
I agree cut the funding for wars. Cut giving money to Countries who hate us and want to kill us. Put politicians on the same level as the rest of us: same health care, social security,
401(k) and not a pension.
Obama Care is already destined to fail. Why Walmart and McDonalds are exempt from the law is beyond me.
Cut all discretionary spending, include cutting politicians wages. Withhold the checks until they do their job and come up with a serious plan.
Take the cap off of FICA tax, but refuse medical care for any illegal alien unable to pay.

@Craig, the social security trust fund has been borrowed from over the past few decades, which has been an excellent source of cash for other government expenses over the past few decades while the Boomers were working and paying in. And only now, when it ceases to be so profitable, do we hear about cutting 'entitlements'. Both Social Security and Medicare are self-funded from the payroll taxes and shouldn't really be a part of deficit reduction. Payroll taxes currently account for 40% of Federal revenue, while the expenditures from the two programs together account for only 33.5% of Federal spending. But what was the first thing the Ryan budget went for?

I realize that there aren't supposed to be any changes in the programs for those of us over 55, but I can't imagine younger workers will be happy about paying the same rate of FICA to get a higher retirement age and a lousy voucher to buy health insurance after the age of 65.

What part of ObamaCare don't you like? The part where an insurance company can't drop you if you're sick? The government subsidies for those lower income people whose employers can't or won't provide health insurance benefits? The individual mandate? I don't like that either, absent a less expensive public option for those people who have to buy the insurance on their own.

Randy: What I am saying is Obama Care is not the right path for us to go- especially now with the current financial issues. Why a free pass for Walmat and McDonalds? Sounds like pay for play going on there...while other businesses that have crappy pay are held to a different standard. Obama Care ends Medicare as we know it- actually it gets rid of Medicare. Provide free health care for everyone regardless of their citizenship is another issue I have here. Government never does things cheaper than the private sector. Case in point: Medicaid patients going to the ER with a sore throat via ambulance. A cab would be cheaper; but the Gvt. doesn't reimburse for a cab, yet covers ambulance transportation.
To assume a single pay system will be cost effective is ignoring the current issues we face already.

What's the right path to go, though? Are you comfortable with this hit and miss, some people have insurance and others don't approach that leaves some people covered and others not, and hospitals passing bad debt on to everyone else?

And no, I'm not comfortable with free health care for non-citizens, unless those resident aliens are here legally and paying taxes like the rest of us.

How does ObamaCare end Medicare as we know it? Other than taking a hard look at Medicare Advantage, which has proved unduly expensive?

Need more socialims, am I right Randy?

No, Steve, the 'socialisms' we already have are fine enough. What we need is a more equitable trade agreement with China and a tax policy that doesn't reward corporations for underpaying the American worker. Because at the end of the day, it's the great American working and middle classes that buy all that stuff.

@ Randy...well said...

I imagine the majority of teacher-bashers were educated by unionized public school teachers.

In truth, I'm not sure what that means.:-)

Respect is something that is earned by your own actions. Titles mean nothing.

Money well spent from the perspective an exWalker backer.

FDIC - What?

Please tell me you don't teach grammar.

Please tell us you taught art and not a real class?
OMG, if your comments above are indicative of your intelligence- you should be cleaning the monkey cages at the zoo, and not teaching our children!
I can see why YOU would support a union- you are the 20% who need one.

The point is still valid. Get out of the damn union and rest on your own laurels!

@greensheet. That is because when they retire at 55 they take that pension that we all paid for and move out of state to more tax friendly climates!

Why yes, I know what a golden parachute is. You're right: my writing lacked parallelism. The people I know have both. As to the cute thing, no one has called me that in quite a while. I was referring to the name Prosser-cuter. Hope I've satisfied your curiosity.

I think I figured out what happened to Patriot's anti-psychotic medication.
How is it working out for you Tom?

@tom sheramn...You need to change your drug of choice.

@25: Have you even read the article about Sussex schools on Patch?
Despite a $2 Million reduction in state aid, and adding some 25 teachers, the BRB allowed for the tools to keep taxes the same. That sounds like a win-win for the state taxpayer and for Hamilton SD taxpayers.

Correction: I meant to say adding 25 students obviously -not teachers.

25...You missed the point. The operating costs are reduced by 1%.
Winning

Lots of cuts Craig.

Craig- the school districts can't raise the levy. One of Walker's new rules.

Good point MRS. R. Surprised you haven't been attacked yet from the likes of McNo and friends. Be prepared for their bully attack.

Dave: you have no clue. Teachers are professionals who work well beyond their required hours. Get wit it will you?

@235301...I don't agree 100% with your comment, but well said...good job...

John, just who do you think pays the salaries of the teachers, road workers, fire fighters? It's the taxpayers. There is the disconnect....it isn't some nameless, faceless owner or corporation. Again, you aren't the enemy. All we, as the payers of those benefits and salaries, expect is that your benefit structures are more in line with ours. If you haven't noticed, a great deal of those taxpayers are out of work right now and under employed. We're asking you to share some of the burden.

And now we get to watch the Ohio gov. squirm!!!!!
God does love those who are 'their brother's keeper'.
Today is another good day !!!!!! Yea! for Ohioians!!!!!!!!!!

UNIONS YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Working with the unions" is what got us into trouble in the first place. WEAC Trust was gouging schools on health insurance prices, and unions would rather file lawsuits and/or allow members to be laid off than to make even the smallest of concessions (like giving up the free viagra benefit).

I had vowed that I would take a break from being involved in the discussions that have dominated the Patch for the last 7 months, but having read these exchanges, I feel compelled to jump back in.
First, by Walker's own admission; union collective bargaining was not a clear fiscal issue in balancing the state budget. This was pure political gamesmanship and cutting off a major source of funding to the Democrats. This has been all about positioning the state for the 2012 general elections. The public workers unions have been clearly targeted and scapegoated. If one looks at the savings it is about $300 mm and the projected state surplus is now $300 mm. Busting the unions' ability to collectively bargain is fiscally a wash. One thing it has done is take roughly 13% to 15% out of the consumer economy. Everyone expects the consumer spending to pull us out of the recession and we just reduced consumer spending by a significant number of middle class citizens.
Unions are not the largest contributor to the economy's decline. In fact unions, both public and private, are such a small minority that the pinnacle of union power is long past. Further dismantling for unions is a conservative "feel good" move to further vilify labor. Big business no longer has any counterbalance to their unrestricted actions.

I think you have that wrong, Lyle. Walker's 'own admission' was not about collective bargaining being a fiscal issue. The non-fiscal items that Walker stated were non-fiscal were the annual union recertification and the collection of union dues.

How does the elimination of collective bargaining take 13-15% out of the consumer economy? The reduction in take home pay for public workers is estimated to be 8%. How much of that can be offset by not having to pay union dues? I would argue that additional offsets are obtained by not raising property taxes to close the budget gaps.

@CowDung...I watched Walker testify before the Congressional Committee and he did admit it was not a fiscal issue.

Here's the part of the transcript:

"Kucinich (0:43): Let me ask you about some of the specific provisions in your proposal to strip collective bargaining rights. First, your proposal would require unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their own members. Can you please explain to me and members of this committee how much money this provision saves for your state budget?

Walker (1:07):That and a number of other provisions we put in because if you are going to ask, if you are going to put in place a change like that, we wanted to make sure that we protected the worker's of our state so they had a right to know what kind of value they got out of it. It's the same reason we gave worker's the right to choose, which is a fundamental America right, the right to choose whether or not they want to be a part of a union, and whether they went up to a thousand--

Kucinich (1:26): Would you answer the question? How much money does it save Governor? Just answer the question.

Walker: It doesn't save any."

Note--Kusinich asks about two specific provisions: Collection of union dues and the requirement for unions to recertify annually. Stating that those two specific provisions aren't fiscal issues is not the same as saying collective bargaining isn't a fiscal issue.

Here's a link to the full transcript. the exchange between Kusinich and Walker clearly addresses two specific provisions of the BRB as being non-fiscal items. It is an inaccurate claim to state that elimination of collective bargaining was admitted by Walker to be a non-fiscal item.

http://wpt.org/npa/transcript1810.cfm

Contrary to what I stated, the partial transcript I posted originally doesn't mention the second provision (the one concerning the collection of union dues). That comes after and is included in the full transcript that I linked...

So looking forward to 'Recall Walker' coming to my city in the fall or start of petitions at least. I don't want to play his games anymore. 'People are rightly judged by the company they keep' ! And the fake Koch phone call said enough for me.
I do not like that the guy is in my own city. Enjoying the benefits of good, smart people have created way before he came here from Colorado.
This is the first time I feel so uneasy about a politician in my whole life.

Dave: good point- the lobbyists have more contact with our representatives than their constituents. Look at Ryan- no town halls for him unless you pay to get in. He's afraid to face his deeply upset constituents.

Speaking of Ryan; just heard him mentioned for the Party Nomination tonight on MSNBC. That's a stretch........ then there is that Reince Preibus (LOL) guy and both out of WI. It's hard to feel pride here in WI. But I was born here first ! :) Right here in Wauwatosa.

It isn't the public sector workers that were painted as the 'enemy' by Walker, it was the public sector unions. I think the public sector workers became 'the enemy' when people started learning about some of the excessive levels of compensation they have been enjoying and were loathe to give up when asked to make concessions. It's pretty hard to defend the union when they would rather have people laid off than give up their free viagra benefit...

Working with people is not in Walker's DNA. His whole MO now is running around celebrating the likes of companies who add a few jobs here and there or sweat shops like down in Fort Atkinson. Yep he is the most polarizing political figure in Wisconsin History.

Then why did it take until the 'second week' for unions to claim that they were willing to make those concessions? It wasn't until public opinion forced them to give up their position that they decided to make an offer of concession. The same thing with the Viagra--it took a shift in public opinion agaisnt the unions for them to give up the lawsuit. The only reason that people weren't laid off because of that issue was because the unions dropped the lawsuit.

CD: Walker didn't even ask for the concessions. He demanded them. The unions basically were playing their cards to see what the real issue was and that was union busting. After two weeks of massive protests and realizing that Walker wasn't going to budge ( they should have known this from his me or the highway dealings in MC) they decided to get at the meat of his end game. Guess what, they did. The Viagra issue like I said was stupid and after public pressure the union dropped their lawsuit. Frankly, Viagra to me it's a recreational drug that should be out of pocket for the entire price. For those who really need it- let's have complete evaluations and document the need. Prove it Viva Viagra gents! Can we move on now from the Viagra issue. Let's talk about the ramifications of last night's election results.

There really are no ramifications from last night's electin results. The republicans maintain their majority in the senate.

You keep wanting to move away from the Viagra issue, but it clearly illustrates why collective bargaining needed to be addressed by Walker. Public unions have long been in a position where they essentially negotiate with themselves--to the point of granting some unrealistic compensation packages.

@25 -- Prove it? THAT would be an interesting medical evaluation, boy howdy!

How did we get on Viagra? But I'd like to point out that it's not a 'recreational' drug for some people. I daresay the teaching profession includes a number of gentlemen of a certain age who require it to engage in a full and functional married life. Some people were using it without actual need, but to eliminate that drug from the coverage would take it away from those who actually needed it.

So you're saying that, not only does going in into teaching mean voluntarily limiting one's earning potential, but also denying oneself certain medical coverage that is available to many other people? How about those expensive cholesterol lowering drugs? Or those pricey arthritic meds that can actually keep you functional? you could call those frivolous too. Nope, you're old, Mr. Chips, you've made love, bicycled and lived enough.

Just another reason for saying the hell with the kids and becoming an MBA.

The big difference is that few people die from an inability to have sex--most people consider it to be a 'recreational' activity rather than one of 'necessity'.

My comment still stands. What a way to attract people into the profession!

Considering that most other professions don't offer free Viagra, I don't think it will be that big of a sticking point...

What about the health plans for the Governor, the state legislature, and the US Congress? I'm interested.

What about them? Do our state legislators and governor pay nothing toward their healthcare and get free Viagra?

If they don't already, I think it's fair to have them pay a percentage of their healthcare costs...

Members of the US Congress do currently pay for their health insurance coverage...

And does that cover ED drugs? There's a world of difference between therapeutic and recreational. Take breast augmentation, for instance. I consider most of that to be cosmetic, but after a mastectomy, it's a different thing entirely.

As someone pointed out elsewhere on the net, the point is moot because Viagra goes off patent early next year.

Don't know what the coverage level is on ED drugs or if there is a copay involved.

Yes, there is a difference between theraputic and recreational. I don't think that taking Viagra is nearly as 'theraputic' as reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy...

Tried that...the citizens of the state decided to keep him. The union puppets could not get the signatures needed.

@Dirk Digler...He's one of a kind. It's good that he could never hold any other higher office.

What citizens did he call "slobs"....all of them (us) or did he identify a specific group that behaves a specific way? It is an unfortunate reality that some groups deserve/earn negative description....it is also an unfortunate reality that groups earning negative description lower the bar for everyone and impact the ability for serious people with divergent positions to effectuate positive change.