Nope. It's all about not making racist comments. Period.

BS and blather rationalization. Since you can't discipline yourself, then moderators are exactly what's needed here at this site. On subject: Walker should be your favorite politico, then since he's all about power grabs and after-the-fact rationalisations. Elephant BS is still BS.
Personal atacks, like the one you just made, are an old tradtion with the GOoPers. More elephant BS.
How you like your "workers freind" now?

@Hudson Resident - since you don't know what was said, why defend it? Anyway - I rarely delete comments because I believe in free speech, but what Saxon said went straight into hate speech and that I won't have.

You mean to tell me that you are trying to defend something that you are not sure what was said ? That not to bright.

@ Hudson...Freedom of speach isn't just free as long as it agrees with your agenda either...on the same token, freedom isn't just being able to do and say whatever you want when you want...that's anarchy and socialism...true freedom is being able to say no even when your "rites" say it may be ok...question for you then...if your driving and doing the posted speed limit but then the person next to you goes flying past you, you can make a perceived judgement that the person was speeding because you had a reference point of your own speed...so are you the judge, jury and executioner of Heather because she may or may not have a different perception of what should be considered good within a thread post? Everybody has rites to say what they want, but if someone else is pushing there "bubble" of rites into mine or anyone elses, that's selfish and just as inconsiderate as someone who feeds off of controlling other's...

Paul removed his own comments.

yes, I pulled it when i realized that this is a state story and not a Hudson Mike Foley story. Not as fun without Foley getting involved. :)

The article is about the current Koch-head Governor. Now, maybe you're capable of catching on. You want to apologise for him or extoll his many, in-your-humble-opinion virtues, then feel free to. Consider it a test of so-called "free speech" , if you like. I will see it as illustrative of bad judgement - my opinion, which I'm entitled to. A reasonable person might conclude, on seeing many derrogatory or hate-filled words used to describe the dear leader in Madison, that the man is unpopular - that people don't like what he's done to our State. You perhaps, have another perspective/ justification/ talking point.
(((Once again, I'm not entitled to make racist comments as judged by the moderators here at this site - neither are you. )))

No, just curious why some have the power trip going on. I have to say Carl Engelking is the exception. I love Patch, just wish the AOL Huffington Post sheep would graze elsewhere.

I'm still waiting to hear from Heather as to what qualifies as "hate speech". Surely there is a patch policy on such an important matter or is it up to the editor's discretion? Eliminating comments based on a subjective criteria is nothing more than trying to steer opinion in a certain direction. The problem with "journalists" is that many of them got into the profession with the purpose of doing just that rather than reporting the news.

contains any advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation.
Instead of trying to memorize all that, you might boil it down to three main policies: “Keep it clean,” “Don’t try to trick people,” and “Treat others as you’d like to be treated.” Easy, right?

When you agreed to the terms of use, you agreed to this. Sorry if you see it another way. And, just so you know, the ACLU sees it the other way, but they don't own this site, Patch does, and therefor it goes by their rules. This is no different than the sidewalk solicitation argument that some members were making here, about how the recallers shouldn't be allowed on sidewalks outside of businesses because that "free speech" isn't protected on "private property". So, in the words of JT, cry me a river.

@ Say What...Good job!...love it...Keep posting this in every politcal thread...

Unfortunately a democracy cannot always take everyone or "all" into account. That is more of a utopian society.

Hopefully Gov. Walker will be out soon and this initiative can be reviewed appropriately. I mistrust everything about this administration.

According to the state DPI, nearly 14% of all public school students in WI in 2010-2011 reported a disability. Just over 39% are economically disadvantaged.

As I commented in a related article, these funds should be returned to the school districts to support existing programs.

Thank you! Someone that displays reading comprehension skills! As you may know, the dear leader in Madison has seen fit to cut funding for education in WI - an old and rerereretreaded GOoPer obcession. I say it's easier to manipulate a poorly educated voter and additionally his efforts to suppress voting in this State speaks to his and his puppet master's agenda. Note how they don't cut their own salaries nor the one's of the myriad consultants that Walker habitually hires.See also; ALECwatch.org ALECexposed.org

50% failure rate? Can you show this statistic?

@mau - I agree that getting back to basics might be the best road to travel with the change of moving to more block scheduling for more time spent on the core subjects of reading, math and writing.

Sorry I can't show the statistic. This is a number that keeps coming up in documentaries on our failing education system. And here I can't give an accurate number either, but it is a big problem that colleges need to teach remedial classes to Freshman.

@Heather, I have to admit that I was a poor student in reading, spelling and math. In high school I took an interest in reading movie and crime magazines and novels. This was a big turning point for me. The more you read and practice these skills, the more your skills improve.

@Mau -- how indeed have we gotten to this point? I entered the first grade in 1955 (no kindergarten) and we were taught to read using phonics primarily, which then naturally segued into see-say. That is,when I see the letter pattern C-A-T, I immediately think of the small feline rather than sounding out 'keh-ay-tee', saying the sound in my mind, and then thinking -- hey, it's a cat. And guess what -- I learned to read pretty well with this method.

Then, about fifteen years later, I learned that my young brother-in-law was being taught the see-say method, because that was supposed to be the best. Is it? Because I see a lot of younger people who don't seem to read so very well.

The same thing happened with the 'new math'. People can't even make change in their heads anymore. I realize I'm doing the verbal equivalent of shaking my cane, but maybe we should quit futzing around and trying every new thing that comes down the pike.

You're right, Mau, this hasn't just happened on Governor Walker's watch. But more and more testing won't help. We need to focus on early childhood, when human intelligence and receptiveness to learning is forged.

@Randy1949, I don't feel that old. Like you I did not go to kindergarten and started first grade in 1956. Top that off I spent 8 years in a parochial school where one nun taught 2 grades in a classroom. How you got treated depended a lot on how much money your parents gave to the church. Those were not memorable years for me but did leave a lasting foundation. My dad with his 8th grade education taught me math (his way) because I wasn't catching on to the new math. And memorizing the math tables have stuck except fractions which I rarely use. I did have to use fractions yesterday to adjust a recipe. Working in my parents store I had a lot of experience counting money. My dad taught me "counting back" and "rounding off" which I use to this day. Often I will balance the checkbook without a calculator, just to keep my mind from going stale. If you don't use it, you lose it.

@Mau -- I'll do you one better. My first classroom was all eight grades in one room with two teachers. Then we moved to the new school with indoor plumbing and two classrooms -- four grades in each.This wasn't such a bad thing, because you got a look ahead, so to speak. The point is, most of us learned.

Maybe we should stop and think about why public education is going down the tubes. Could it be that, more and more, we are handing our very young children over to caregivers who really haven't the interest in giving them the one-on-one stimulation that develops the young mind? I don't mean showing six month olds reading and math flashcards. I mean picking them up, talking to them, echoing their facial expressions and first words.

How do we make up for parents who either can't or won't do that?

@Mau, I too question why there is such a low graduation rate. Especially with all the programs initiated over the years costing ever more dollars, that researchers and teachers pleaded for, that were supposed to enhance education and keep them up with the times, yadda yadda yadda. I guess it all still boils down to the basics and better parental involvement.

With the days as they are, where two people no longer have the desire to work on a commitment to each other, I don't see much progress on the horizon with parents committing any more of "their" precious time toward raising and educating their own flesh and blood. It's sad. I see way too many selfish parents out there. It makes me wonder why they even decided to have any children.

@Randy, now you have me jealous. I missed the 1 room schoolhouse by one year. My parents had a store in town and decided when I started school we would all go to the school in town. I used to love going there when they had their picnics and plays. It was such fun.

You struck a cord with "picking them up". This is just what my son's pediatrician said when I brought my baby in for an appointment. He said get him out of those swings and carriers and interact. I did exactly that.

@Pamela, I gave up my career to raise my son and by time he got out of high school I was out of the workforce too long. Even in high school he begged me not to go back to work. I did a lot of volunteer work and temp jobs and sacrificed a lot to do this.

@mau & Pamela....There has been a steady decline in the basic competency of high school graduates since 1966. There have been a number of variables that account for this decline. My point is, that this not a recent phenomena. There have been continuing changes in educational theories and practices, some good and some not so good. So much of education performance is based on cultural issues unrelated to school or teaching methods, relating most notably to the culture of poverty.

@Mau and Randy1949,........For a smile, you both have something in common with my third eldest brother. He did not have a kindergarten experience either. It was the 60's and when he was tested to enter school, his skill level was that of a first grader, so he started off in the first grade. To this day he still jokes, that his shortcomings, which he has very few, are a direct result from being denied the experience of attending Kindergarten as a child. :)

@ Lyle -- Poverty and an intellectually-deprived home surely play a part, but may I say, it isn't just the culture of poverty. Even the children of the middle-class and wealthy professional couples are being given over to day-care and nannies at the age of six weeks because that is what the current job environment requires. Who reads anymore, other than old retirees like me? Everyone is to busy and too tired.

That "almost 50% failure rate" is not correct.

WI has one of the highest high school graduation rates in the U.S., typically between 85% to 90% (http://dpi.wi.gov/eis/pdf/dpinr2011_43.pdf), while the recent nationwide average high school graduation rate is about 70% (http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/index.php?submeasure=36&year=2008&level=nation&mode=graph&state=0).

To meet WI's high school graduation requirements, a student must demonstrate being able to read, write, and do math. Achievement gaps are closing, also (http://dpi.wi.gov/eis/pdf/dpinr2011_28.pdf).

On average, WI students perform well on standardized tests. For example:

In 2009, WI students were above the national average in 3 of 4 measures: 4th grade math and 8th grade math and reading, but 4th grade reading scores were slightly below average; the performance of WI 4th grade students on these tests has declined somewhat from previous decades as the number of nonnative English speakers has increased in WI, and as the median family income has declined in WI (http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/blog/article_362ae88e-3e12-11e0-86e5-001cc4c002e0.html).

WI students score near the top in SAT/ACT mean scores by state (http://studentactivism.net/2011/02/21/teachers-unions-actsat-and-student-performance-is-wisconsin-out-ranking-the-non-union-states/). In 2011, WI students were fourth in mean SAT score (http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/policyblog/detail/2010-sat-scores-by-state).

Thanks for your feedback Treedweller. Have you had the opportunity to see the plan already? I wasn't aware that it's been made available. I was just asking a valid question.I don't believe that I said anything to the effect that "he's not doing the right thing, or doing enough." My question is simply, will this plan help children with disabilities? I do however agree with Mau in that programs like this by government officials have historically hurt students when they are not thought through. I'm also happy to see that his plan does include input from "teachers, parents, advocates, foundations and lawmakers."

Treed, I've written it elsewhere: schools can only do so much. Parents are the primary influencers in children's lives. The achievement gap begins to open in infancy. If parents can't/don't read with their children and communicate with them in a way that opens their eyes to the world, they are already falling behind. Social behavior, proper nutrition, language development are all essential ingredients (I've mentioned that best prepared kids have 1,000 hours of reading time with parents and least prepared have 25 when they enter kindergarten).

What are causal factors for the achievement gap? Poverty, parental literacy deficits, other family situations. How will this plan provide meaningful "parental involvement" when WI continues to lose jobs, state health care is cut, $1.2b from education, etc.?

Without addressing the "whole child" issue, these programs will fail. The best way to help kids is to create a social environment that helps parents too, and that means good public schools, affordable health care and higher education, and good paying jobs.

Cutting $1.2b from state education and earmarking $600,000 for an expensive experiment is folly. Obviously the seditious would-be plutocrats are looking at dumbing down the U.S. work force and damping down wages. We can support Walker and his bosses or fight for America. I choose America. Recall Scott Walker!

For those of you that think that WI and US education system is so great, see OECD data below that compares most countries:

1.) OECD says the annual expenditure per student in US is $14,000+ and OECD average us $8,000.
2.) US is 23rd in science performance and NOT statistically different from the OECD average.
3.) US is 31st mathematics performance and statistically significantly BELOW OECD average.
4.) US is 17th in reading performance and NOT statistically different from the OECD average.

I'm glad to see that Gov. Walker is trying to improve our system rather than the WEAC which talks a good story BUT doesn't have real data to back it up.

Highest Cost and average (at best) results. Way to go WI/US unionism.

This really working.....DUH.

Don Van,
Two points: What are the statistics for Wisconsin? and What role do parents play in education?

Still waiting for the "hate speech" clarification Heather.....

Block scheduling has its place, but is not as effective for some courses as it is for others. Therefore, some schools have adopted the Block-Skinny schedule. Personally I find the Block schedule can be difficult as you are cramming a years worth of information into one semester. That allows less time for reflection and processing. It also makes an absence so much more difficult to make up.

@Hudson - since you admitted you didn't see the comment then how about just accepting the fact that as a Patch editor, I felt the comment didn't adhere to our Terms of Service? I will not restate it and lend it more legitimacy.

I have done a load of research on Block Scheduling, and its not all that it is cracked up to be. I wouldn't support it if I was a parent. Sorry.

The best response to the insensitive hate speech of the Westboro Baptist Church, that I have ever seen!!! Apologies, in advance, for the expletive embedded into the url. It's not mine!

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Fuck_5c3aea_1935079.jpg

@Stormy - I never had a discussion with you about a Walker/Hitler photo, but if I'd seen it, I would have taken it down. That, too, is offensive, IMO

SW's discussion was with Denise.

http://caledonia.patch.com/articles/year-in-review-recall-petition-stories-top-our-list

Heather,
your stereotyping is just as offensive and only furthers the problem

lol. Calling one racist then inserting a racist comment as an insult. The left is so funny when they are mad.

Oh, I dunno. Mah Banjo playing is purty good.

Racism continues to be part of the debate because there are groups with vested interest in keeping it there. Is there racism still in this country? Of course. Whenever you have people involved you are going to have the ignorant as well as the enlightened. But its the exception rather than the rule.

That doesn't fit the template of some disenfranchised groups however, so it will continue to be a part of the discussion for the foreseeable future.

Your arrogance appears boundless. For you to argue against racism while, at the same time, hurling a stereotypical slur has brought you into the gutter.

I'm assuming she's referring to white people and that's acceptable racism, especially if you're a Republican.

She's stereotyping and therefor not making a very strong or logical argument against racism.

However, I nontheless STONGLY agree with her statement that it is unbelievable that we live in the year 2012, yet and racism continues to raise its ugly head.

Of all of the complex problems facing this country and the world, certain people continue to be preoccupied with racism? Yes, it is an embarrassment.

I think Ron Paul is right when he says it is not so much that people are racist but more that the government is with their policies.

"I, HRG, was offended, so there, now you are offended - how does it feel?"

So HRG, your own offensive stereotyping is a morally appropriate way to correct or cancel a previous wrongful action by someone else? I'm sure that you have heard of the saying "two wrongs don't make a right?"

Why is your comment wrong? Because you make it at the expense of others uninvolved in this blog or discussion by failing to realize that your comment is a double derogatory applied to them:

1) the "banjo and teeth" comment itself is stereotypical and is frequently considered derogatory and offensive to those Americans of Appalachian or Ozark heritage (look it up); and

2) the comment further suggests that all such individuals are racist.

You're not proving anything but that you're crazy and a racist.

Heather, you are such an unbelievable hypocrite! I can't believe you still have a job at Patch. What is the matter with you? Do you even realize how ridicules you sound?
All the unbelievable hate speech I see on this site directed at our Governor and his supporters that violate your so called "Terms & Conditions" with not even a warning from Patch editors. And then you come out with this "holier than thou" racist and insulting comment. AND YOU ARE AN EDITOR? What a joke you are.

If you are speaking to me: I am not an editor and I do not technically work for Patch. I am a columnist/contributor for Patch on a freelance basis. And your opinion of me matters very little.

If you are speaking to Heather A.: She IS the editor and I have seen nothing near offensive spoken by her.

Yes Heather, I am speaking to you. The fact that you are a hypocrite is not an opinion, it is a fact. All anyone has to do is read your silly comments.
We do agree on one thing however; we both hate the fact that you live here.
If you need help moving, I would be happy to help you pack.

Why so angry, Sam? You seem to be a bit beyond the usual conversational 'give and take' with your nasty comment.

If her writing offends you, just stop reading.

You're right CowDung, my apologies. I guess sometimes "I am a human and have human, emotional reactions from time to time. I am not the Dalai Lama nor do not claim to be politically correct nor the perfect role model at all times. I get pissed off and lash out like most people when pushed to a particular level..." And sometimes "I have good days and bad days and today my tolerance for crap is a bit lower than normal."
I think I will move on to a different article. There is not much discussion pertaining to the actual article anyway.

I do not agree with Heather RG's point of view, but I in no way hate her or that she lives here, or wish her any ill will.

"Poison isn’t always something you eat or drink – it can be an emotion. And hate is one of them, eating you up inside and causing destruction. Hate, when left unchecked, will drain your spirit, tarnish your soul and darken your days."

This applies to both liberals and conservatives spewing their hate.

mau - thank you. I do appreciate that. And I agree with you completely. I know from experience that hate, guilt, anger, resentment can all destroy a person physically, emotionally and psychologically. It changes you for the worse. Because of circumstances and my reactions to them...I have spent years attempting to find the Heather I once knew. Closer every day, but sure wish I made it easier on myself long ago. When I see it in others - half of me is triggered to react. The other half feels empathy. That dichotomy and a broken comment filter can be a dangerous combination. :) I will try to do my best to improve my reactions in the future...but I can make no absolute promises.

Thanks again. And P.S. I probably agree with some of your statements more often than you think.

@HRG, you were the old me and I work every day, all day, not to return to that old self. My life turned around after reading two books by Dr. Wayne Dyer, "Your Erroneous Zone" and "Pulling Your Own Strings". I carried them with me like a bible and every time I caught myself returning to my old self, I pulled out the books. I still hate, I still get offended, I still react, but I have learned to let them go. It takes a lot of self-training.

Mau - I have had a few of his books for years and I still have not read them. I saw him on Oprah's new show recently and was just so mesmerized by what he was saying. And I am not a religious person (spiritual, not religious) at all. But I don't think you have to be to really get what he is teaching. I should really start reading one of those books as I have my moments too.

@Heather, I started with Your Erroneous Zones. I read a chapter at a time, thought about it, practiced it and then went to the next chapter. It doesn't take a lot of time and you can take as many days as you want to think about it. Poo on Oprah :) She lost me after her first diet, bragged on tv and gained it all back. Then did it over and over again. It isn't about spirituality or religion, it is about getting yourself under control. In fact I dug out my copy because I need to get my health back in order and I need willpower. The doctor's just aren't doing it.

"And if you are so blessed to have been born without fault...then good for you."

Really? Give me a break.

I thought you were just proving a point, no you're expressing emotion? I can't wait to keep reading the racist comments below this keeps getting better and better.

Stormy Weather...I'd take it as just another attempt to influence my feelings about President Obama...no better or no worse than much of the stuff I've seen on Patch over time. Pictures...words, it really makes no difference to me, ultimately. I'll make up my own mind with whatever "facts" are available to me, and get on with it. My point was that pictures/political cartoons are used to influence the masses of people who don't do a lot of reading and aren't into the thinking about complex problems. They still get to vote, however. It would be nice if the pictures depicted some true thing, but in politics, alas, this is not going to happen very often. When you run for office, your life is no longer your own. They say that "by the time you do what is necessary to run for office, you are no longer fit to hold the office." In this country, you do need a good sense of humor to get through the day.

Lyle, seems to me you're the one who says if you make comments on the patch you should expect to be challenged.

Not all conservatives are extremely sensitive and not all conservatives stereotype their opponents. And I wasn't offended by HRG's remark.

Lyle:

HA pulled the comments (rightly so), not HRG.

Leave it to you to categorize the hypocrisy of racism and stereotyping as a typical response based upon party affiliation or underlying philosophy. As you well know, racism, stereotyping and hypocrisy know no bounds.

I AGREED with HRG regarding racism as an embarrassment in the year 2012, but nonetheless called her (so did numerous others) on spewing the same insensitivity she criticizes.

Did you not read the posts?

Funding??? 45 years is long track record of failure, according to Lyle's 1966 date. So, for the past 45 years we have been throwing more money at schools and getting no results. How about pay for performance?
It stands to reason poor parenting will create poor students in most cases. Genetics also is at play. Dumb parents produce dumb kids, and are rewarded by a system to have more kids for more financial help. Kind of the reverse Darwin effect.
Maybe we should have 1 year old K classes so someone is able to read to the kids?
If you can't parent kids- then don't have them!

@Celeste -- Oddly enough, first grade was when my parents stopped reading to be and insisted I read it myself.

Craig,
With the information that Celeste has shown regarding parent involvement, how can you grade teachers on their effects on students with poor parenting? It seems really tough to come up with a metric to overcome the individuality of the students, and the possibility for different concentrations of said students in various classes.

My parents didn't read to me, didn't have time. But we all spent mealtime together and were a tight family unit. I did have a sister 10 years older than me who took care of us and spent a lot of time with us. My parents were always full of interesting stories.

I do have to disagree that dumb parents produce dumb kids. I know a lot of very intelligent people who come from very bad breeding.

Mau,
I think that if you look at it from a outsiders standpoint, that sister of yours probably served the role that your parents couldn't. I would agree that dumb parents don't necessarily produce dumb kids, but, I will say that they produce similar societal standards or beliefs. What this means is that you can have a very smart kid who takes on the attitude of their very dumb parents. It is all pretty complicated, and everyone needs to be treated as an individual. As such, it is very tough to pay teachers on merit because the metric is very tough. Honestly, I think that it would take an incredible amount of time, an algorithm that would always require tweaking, and many data points of each student. It is easier to do it subjectively, but there would be a higher rate of "failure" in doing so. The one thing that holds true is that if parents get more involved with their children over the first 5 years of their lives, some very good things can happen. That isn't the type of commitment today's parents are looking for.

Cell phones, video games and computers. The town I grew up in is shrinking. My high school graduating class of 71 students is huge compared to now when they may have 30-40. I think in Elementary school there were probably 15-20 per grade with 2 classes per room. No science lab, no gymnasium. Our gymnasium was recess.

there is a lot of dissonance in the talking points of "the silent majority".

Yes... It must be a talking point as it doesn't fit the "template" of what the left has been using...

And in regards to the Recall, I think the GAB got the number wrong. Actual cost of the recall might be as high as 3 billion, 9 million. If Walker loses, we'll be right back in the tax and spend hole we just dragged ourselves out of.

@Terry, You're so right! There is a lot more at stake. I don't know about you, but I find it increasingly bothersome that I never hear the people that are, itching to take over Scott Walker's job, speak of any plan on how they will balance the budget. How they will undo all of the wrongs he has supposedly done. What will they cut or what taxes would they increase? What I do hear, over and over again, is how Scott Walker has ruined education in this state and that he is against unions. That our children will not have a chance in hell of getting a good education. That's bunk and they know it. It's silly how they stumble over each other, clamoring for the votes of the pissed off educators and it's getting really old to the rest of us. They can complain all they want, that he hasn't created a substantial amount of new jobs too, because I am intelligent enough to know, that in this economy, that is a monumental task that's definitely going to take some time. I also am intelligent enough to know that he is not against "Unions." Business owners are against unions and always have been. My husband is in a union. Over the last 12 years, employees took concessions in wages, less benefits and still no raises for another 3 years. He's been there 30 years and now makes only $3.75 dollars more than when he started. The 3rd owner, refuses to recognize the union. Employee morale is at it's lowest and he fears losing his job. Every. Single. Day. I don't blame Scott Walker for this.

Didn't save me a dime. He just budgeted for the 3 billion dollars of ours you've already spent.

Nice try though...

Dave,
If the short cut method was the right way, then that is what the teacher would have taught their students. Teaching them how to subvert the system as a parent does nothing to help them with future problems. Math is about methodology and procedures, sort of like the scientific method. But, as you said, it is because of the walker issue, not because that is the way they are trained to teach, expected to teach, and the students will eventually be tested on, or that it will effect the methodology of future "maths" that they will encounter. Collective bargaining has nothing to do with it. Just as it has nothing to do with the English teacher taking of points "cuz" your child uses the same slang as you. Now, though, you are teaching your child to fight the educational system and cry like a baby when they can't "do it there way". How do you think those sour grapes and attitude towards education will effect your child's future?

@ Say What?...Your assuming four things...one...that I intentionally set out to subvert the teaching methods, when in reality I just showed my child how I was taught to do the problem because I didn't understand the new methodology either at that time. Your point is void because teaching my child the way I was taught to do it doesn't change the future of how she learns...especially if she didn't understand the new method anyway so she is actually ahead...not behind. two...that I am oblivious to the new teaching methodology and that I don't understand how the "process" works. Three, that the "sour grapes" are on my end, when in reality the sour grapes are on the educators end for calling my kid dumb and stoopid for not understanding something. I guess it must be ok in your book to insult students at any point when they don't "get" what's being taught immediately so that must somehow be equated to MY sour grapes then. And four, the whole Walker taking away collective bargaining has alot to do with it because I have rarely seen the kind of disconnect from the students as I have since this whole campaining started because there are sum teachers out there that have inevitably taken out their anger on the students because they can't separate their emotion from their job.

I have to stop reading these posts. I am biting my tongue so hard I think it is starting to bleed.

Dave, the grading on the coursework in many courses is not so much based on whether you have a right or wrong answer but how you got to that answer. On the flip side, if your child got the answer wrong but used the correct logic do you want them to receive zero points for their effort? No, they should receive partial credit for their answer. Or, if they put down the right answer but showed no work on the test should they receive full credit? No. The thought process that goes into an answer is more important than the answer itself. Use the process that is being taught.

Now, where you can fail the teacher here is educating the parent on how to help the child learn the new procedure. When our children receive math homework these days we are given a sheet(s), specifically for the parents, to understand how the child is being taught to perform the problems. In many cases the way kids are learning math these days is far different than how we learned. If these sheets are coming home it is your responsibility to understand them and teach your children the correct way to answer the problems. If you are not receiving these sheets then it's the teachers fault and it has to be rectified. Bottom line: the parent's role in educating their children is far greater and far more important than any teacher that is put in front of them.

@ 235301...However true your answer may be, the fault or responsibilty is not my own. Being a teacher of machanics to people of all ages. I have taken it upon myself to unerstand the dynamics that not everyone understands mechanics equally. Therefore, I have taught myself how to teach in different methods for those that quickly adapt, those that do not and everyone in between. Having personal pride in what I do, I find it a failure on my part if I could not find a way to teach someone the logistics of the lesson. I teach that there are more than one way to work on/rebuild a powertrain as long and the end result is the same...a fully working and operational powertrain. So I agree with your logic to a degree, however, when I went to school, it was the teachers responsibilty to find a way for the the student to learn...not belittle them and make statements like, "you must be stoopid if you don't understand this". The end result of a problem and the shown work to get said answer should be graded equally and without bias to methodology. I still use my "old math" to accomplish many tasks and engineer/design many things, so how does the new math and the old math differ other than how it's taught. It doesn't. I do agree with you on the aspect that my child should still learn the new method and adapt to it because that is what is being taught, but in my eyes, teaching needs to be just as flexible to teach as the student to learn.

I think that you hit on the thing that I don't like about the latest math teaching fad that seems to be in favor these days.

I don't take issue with teaching multiple methods for solving a math problem--different learning styles may require different techniques or methods. The issue I have is that my kids are evaluated on each of the different techniques--if they use the 'wrong' one to solve the problem, they are penalized for it. I don't understand why they can't just let the kids use whatever method that they are most comfortable with to solve the problem...

@ CowDung...Agreed...

@HRG -

Relax. Close your eyes, take a deep breath, and picture yourself in your happy place. :-)

Hoffa - Today's place will be Hawaii...sitting on a beach eating something fattening and drinking a pina colada. (aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

Thanks. I needed that :)

BTW - I read about your holiday...I am so sorry. I hope things are getting better!!! You sound like a great fur-daddy!!

"Like the man says, ‘there's no problems, only solutions.’"

- Jeff Bridges as ‘Kevin Flynn,’ TRON (1982) paraphrasing Jon Lennon’s ‘Watching the Wheels’

If the solution reached is correct, why does it matter what methodology was used to arrive at it? What is the justification for discriminating against employing alternative methodologies so long as they are sound and produce the correct solution? As TRON and Lennon attempt to teach us, the solution is paramount to the problem.

Saavik: Admiral, may I ask you a question?
Kirk: What's on your mind, Lieutenant?
Saavik: The Kobayashi Maru, sir.
Kirk: Are you asking me if we're playing out that scenario now?
Saavik: On the test, sir... will you tell me what you did? I would really like to know.
McCoy: Lieutenant, you are looking at the only Starfleet cadet who ever beat the no-win scenario.
Saavik: How?
Kirk: I reprogrammed the simulation so it was possible to rescue the ship.
Saavik: What?
David Marcus: He cheated.
Kirk: I changed the conditions of the test; got a commendation for original thinking. I don't like to lose.
Saavik: Then you never faced that situation... faced death.
Kirk: I don't believe in the no-win scenario.

- William Shatner as ‘Admiral James T. Kirk,’ Kirstie Alley as ‘Lt. Saavik,’ DeForest Kelley as ‘Dr. Leonard H. ‘Bones’ McCoy,’ and Merrit Butrick as ‘Dr. David Marcus,’ Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn (1982)

And as Star Trek II attempts to teach us, our schools should be promoting imagination and creative/original thinking instead of discouraging it in favor of a cookie-cutter one size fits all approach to teaching.

@HRG -

Thanks for the well wishes as well as your concerns during my absence from Patch - I really appreciate it!

Hoffa hopes that you and your family had an amazing holiday season – even if it wasn’t spent on a beach in Hawaii ;-)

Once again Mr. Hoffa I fully agree with you...plus I like your humorous approach (intended or not) to explaining your reasoning...I am laughing in a positive sense not a sarcastic one...good job...well sed...

I think we're missing the point here: the schools are teaching alternative means to find a solution to the problem. With our children I see a progression of how to solve math problems. So far I've seen no less than three ways to solve addition/subtraction with each new school year bringing a new method. I strongly suggest that you open your minds to the different methods because one might be the way your child learns best. My spouse recently commented that they would have understood addition much better as a child had they been taught via one of the methods now in use. Don't close your children's minds off to a method that might work best for them just because you learned one way or it's a way that you are comfortable with. I was like everyone else when I first started to have to teach my children these alternative methods: what's wrong with good old carry the one, etc? You have to be open to alternative means.

And if it turns out what is being studied is not conducive to your child's learning then have a discussion with the teacher and work something out with them.

At least here in the WFB school system our children are so much more advanced than we were at their age. I have to believe part of it is the way they are being taught and how they are being taught to solve problems.

Dave,
You clearly have no understanding of child psychology, or you would understand that your attitude and opinions of teachers deeply shapes your child's experience. Without a doubt, there is a chance that the teacher might have called your child stupid. Without a doubt, your child may be lying. I have worked with kids long enough to have experienced a student saying that a teacher said something and when questioned further, turned the story back and they "felt" like the "meant" what they thought the teacher was saying. In the end, it was their perception. Putting that aside, you are setting your child up for failure within the system of education which goes beyond high school as well as societal norms which are prevalent where ever your child is heading. Anytime you diminish the opinion or value of someones thoughts, because it is not congruent with yours, in front of a child repeatedly, you diminish the possibility of that child having any type of positive relationship with that person. This happens in marriages and divorces with parents and their children, and it is something that I wouldn't do to my child because it doesn't give them the freedom of thought or the opportunity to make friendships and connections with anyone that doesn't agree with their complete belief structure. I wish you luck, but I wish you child more.

@ Say What...Clearly you are missing one key aspect to your pop-psychoology once again...it's called common sense. Your assumptions are rediculous and calling my child a liar in this scenario has lost my respect for your opinion. Assumption one, that I have a poor attitude towards teachers and their profession. Assumption two, that this particular teacher was not called to carpet for said actions by more than one student. I don't have to understand pop-psychology to see the human dark potential to cover their own misgivings which leads me to assumption 3, that I have no experience in dealing with a childs behavior or read/studied it or comprehend this psychology you are refering to. Assumption 4, that I do not understand the importance of parenting. Go ahead and reply, but you clearly don't understand the importance of not ridiculing someone's child in conversation and my respect is gone for your opinion...

@ 235301...no one said anything about not teaching my child the new methodology of mathematics...this is what I wrote in my last reponse to you, "I do agree with you on the aspect that my child should still learn the new method and adapt to it because that is what is being taught, but in my eyes, teaching needs to be just as flexible to teach as the student to learn." How does that reponse equate to not having my child learn it anyway? I'm glad that you like the new math, I never said one time that I didn't. The issue was with the method of reaching the same answer and being punished for getting the answer right regardless. In my opinion, there could have been a much better way of handlinging the scenario then the way it turned out.

235301:

I think it is you that has missed the point here. It's not a matter of not being open to the new methods of solving math problems, it's an issue that the children aren't being permitted to use the method that works best for them. They are being forced to use a specific method and are penalized when they don't.

What good is teaching multiple methods of solving math problems if they don't let the children use the method that works best with their learning/thinking style?

@robert heule -

Your statement is incorrect. Private ownership/property rights are what gives the media "the right to reject any comments they feel are inappropriate."

I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU ARE SCREAMING.

I find this comment to be the most ironically hilarious comment on Patch ever.

@235301, Well said and I agree.

I think it's interesting that socio-economic variables are brought into this when trying to explain the poor performance of the US. How do you rectify this with the fact that the poor in this country are among the richest people in the world? Compare the poor in the US vs the poor in say China. US: flat screen TV, cell phone, car, apartment, clean running water, plumbing. China: sleep on a dirt floor, drink unfiltered water, no electricity in the home, squat in an open pit. Yet China kicks our butt in education. And I can guarantee you we spend several times more than China on the typical student. It's the culture. We devalue education in this country and when our kids fail we make excuses for them instead giving them a swift kick in the arse. We coddle our children and give them a pat on their held when they fail. We have no-cut sports teams so Conner and Megan won't feel bad about themselves. We pass them from grade to grade even though they are failing. I guarantee you that behavior is not only not tolerated it doesn't exist in China. Like it or not they are our new competitors. Hopefully we will rise to the challenge this time just like we have with all previous challengers.

235301,
Why do schools coddle the kids? Is it because the school is coddling the parents?

@Say What: Perhaps that's part of it. My little Conner is special and he should get a participation trophy too. I think it's the mindset in this country now....I find it ironic that we push to have Darwinism/Natural Selection taught in our schools(and yes I am fully on board with natural selection, don't go there with me) and then we're dragged kicking and screaming to deal with the consequences of it when we see it in action. Not every kid is a special snowflake. There are winners and losers. Yet we have this mindset from government on down to the education of our children that we have to put up barriers to failure. Guess what, when you put up barriers to failure you also are putting up barriers to success. Somehow we've come up with the mindset to be fair we have to push the losers up and hold the winners down like it's a zero sum game. All we get out of that is mediocrity. Time for us to hold ourselves accountable.

235301,
You are right about the decrease in success, but it is a complacency, not so much a barrier. What I have seen in the last 5 months has absolutely killed my hopes for these kids, and it is their hopes for themselves. The barrier that we put up for failure is large amounts of time and money in the form of extra teachers and time and resources. This, in theory, should help, but if the kids never fail, they never try any harder. so, it is a failure to not allow them to fail.

Dave,
You have a good point to a degree. Like Lake Wobegon, everyone's above average. But you can have the other extreme of cut throat competitiveness where people will try to win at all cost. The Vince Lambardi World. In that environment, kids are labeled "loser's" early on, and because THEY believe it, that's what they become. Neither one is healthy for our kids. We need to strike a balance.

Yeah you posted that one a while back. Still doesn't make sense unless you are refering to the income generated by the dem senators skipping town in their temper tantrum last year.

Perhaps you meant this billboard?

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=support+scott+walker&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1280&bih=1244&tbm=isch&tbnid=RXEj91yDJY8eiM:&imgrefurl=http://mobyrebuttal.blogspot.com/2011/02/this-should-make-any-president-proud.html&docid=MZQYplO3bA0XiM&imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xp-EF-gYz78/TWJ2PeYFEGI/AAAAAAAAGkU/I5_e5aDWhTo/s1600/stop%25252Bleeching.jpg&w=696&h=446&ei=6hcPT-nGIaqW2QXenZDDAg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=351&sig=105944148171560283758&page=2&tbnh=146&tbnw=194&start=30&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:30&tx=80&ty=63

lol.

Also on that page:
"Times are tough and everbody has to give a little" - Obama

It's a shame that you think job losses are something to laugh about.

Pretty amusing spin that @ THURSTON HOWELL III is putting out there about the plant closing in Stevens Point ... has much more to do with the United Steel Workers union refusing to budge, and how that idiotic tactic, by the union, cost 120 of their union brothers to lose their jobs. Well done USW! You have once again lost power, lost members and demonstrate that you are rank amateurs at job retention.

The union should have crumbled like they did at Mercury in FDL. Then they would be able to employ double the people for the same cost and put people back to work, albeit that affording the little things in life like housing, food, clothing, and the like might not be possible. But, it is all about jobs.

Looks like Doyle and other local leaders were trying to get them to stay for years with no resolution. I don't see how a crappy company with bad owners and a bad union is Walkers issue but you hate him for everything so why not spin it some more.

Luckily we still have a free trade market where as an owner of a business you can choose to take it in whatever direction you wish. Even if that is to Mexico.